next »

[tommyfr]

In another long thread related to the recent Davis cup match vs New Zealand, that Philippines lost, and is now serously risking falling down from Group 1 to group 2, some commented on the future of Philippine tennis.

First, Davis Cup team member and captain Cecil Mamit at 35 years of age can not be expected to help our team the same way. Second, most of the other players seems to be fil-foreigners. Cecil Mamit is one to start with. Gonzales and Huey are also fil-for. The biggest hope for the decicive tie vs Taiwan seems to get a fil-german into the team (Sieber).

But what can we do to develop more local tennis talent, competitive on the international scene?
- Today we have no local player ranked within top 1000 among the men (nor women). New Zealand with a population of 5 M, have 4-5 players within top 1000, just as an example. Also Taipei,Korea, Thailand have 4-5 players ranked in top 1000. Presently we only have Jeson (potential). Maybe Arcilla, but he has not international ranking. And we have coach Manny Tecson,of international caliber. maybe others? As for junior girls, Japan have 10 players ranked within top 100. Best filipino under 18 is Patrimonio ranked 120, next one ranked 300.
-However, we also seems to have some good younger age groupers, esp in 10-12-14. And some age groupers w family have ambition and already decided for home schooling to have more time for practice.

- And we seems to have a financially poor, and incompetent national tennis association. (Can you imagine a national sports association without a functioning updated web page. Last update were like 2 years ago.)
But luckily we have some big private sponsors and serious supporters.
- Very few tennis tournamnents in the country, other than for age groupers and rec doubles players.

Ideas? Comments. Suggestion

[SLP888]

Nobody wants to sacrifice for the sake of tennis. They all wants glory without sweating that's the big problem. We have many smart and talented guys in our tennis community, have a plenty ideas and experienced. They don't want to work hard for the betterment of Philippine Tennis. Dependent on fil-fors spending big bucks to play for Philippines. The money they spend should be used for the development of tennis not just for hiring fil-fors. How could we produce top players if we don't have a development programs. Now, we should start ages 8 or 10 give them proper training and good quality practice. PHILTA should do about this if not Philippine Tennis will and always be relying on fil-fors.

[RafaRen]

tama kayo jan the legend.., ^_^..,meron na ngayong program ni kowch bob..,

[tommyfr]

Charise and other famous singers is not a product from any government agency. Manny Pacquio, and some of the other worldclass boxers, is not much a product of Philippine boxing association development program. Jeson Patrombon is not coming from Philta.

Williams sisters is not a product from USTA (they were mainly developed by her parents and Rick Macci). Maria Sharapova is not a product from Russian tennis federation or USTA (but her father, then Bollettieri in Florida and Robert Lansdorp in California). Serbian Tennis federation had no part in Djolovic development, and spanish tennis federation (although very competent and w big budget) no part in Nadals development (mainly his uncle Toni).

Bjorn Borg, Mats Wilander, Stefan Edberg...not products from Swedish tennis association.
Please dont put any hope on Philta. A totally incompetent, corrupt organisation that cannot even put up a functioning web page.

And is it true that our young players "want glory without sweating", without "sacrifice"?
Is that a fitting description on Patrombon, Patrimonio sisters, Alberto Lim Jr, Alexis Santos, Eala and the other top youngsters? Of course not. And many young even go for homeschooling, so it cant be true as the major problem area. Of course there are some spoiled brats among the age groupers obviously, as in all countries.....

For sure there are families, and children with ambition and willingness to go seriously also for tennis. We have some very talented age groupers with pro potential. It can be achieved ..... with the glory, fame and money that comes with international success. And when and if we get a world class tennis player, then tennis would boom in this country.

[thetuan]

Tommyfr

You asked a great question that have been asked since the early 80s.  I have an article that was written in 1984 in the old Philippines Panorama and the article, titled Young Tennisters on the Way Up, talked about how the top four juniors at the time have to rely on private sponsors or their parents for their developments, training, and travel.  The article also highlighted the need for Philippines Tennis Association to step up and design a grass root program talent ID program, a junior development program and an elite training program to help identify the potential tennis talents in the provinces, give them proper training to see the cream rises, and train the best of the best the RIGHT way so that they can maximize their potentials and compete internationally.  That was 27 years ago and these questions were asked recently with no clear answers in sight.  There was some attempts to address this problem in the 90s with the Willie Hernandez Academy, but as I understand it, this academy was more of a hit and miss deal.  If you show up and you have people to play with but there was no real program there to properly develop and train the juniors players.

Hopefully we can all help and change this moving forward.  I have been involved in tennis a long time and I have seen academies in the US and Thailand.  I know what it takes to develop tennis talents and I have not seen anything close to a development program here in the Philippines since I arrived here in 2002.  PHILTA is not the issue because the board of PHILTA is really a non functional board.  You can't expect them to do what is needed to get done - I accepted this a long time ago. 

We recently started a program to address this exact problem in developing the local tennis talents.  Philippines Tennis Academy (PTA) was started and we officially opened our doors on July 11 of this year.  Our mission is very simple - identify the tennis talents, train them properly, and give them plenty of opportunities to test their skills in international tournaments when they are ready to compete.  We pooled together the private sponsors so we don't have one sponsor helping one kid and another sponsor is helping someone else.  For now, we brought the sponsors, top coaches and the top juniors together so the money, the proper coaching and the talents are all in one place.  It's going to be an interesting journey so stay tuned

Tuan

[tommyfr]

Hi thetuan,

thanks for your interesting post.

Yes the question of the country's tennis future has been asked long time, and still today. Not only in the Philippines but also in the US, in Spain, UK, Sweden, Japan, Australia.just to mention a few i know of...the debate is there.....

Where is the location of the academy you mentioned (PTA)? And how many students do you have, at what ages? Previously I heard of the tennis academy that was under Jalosjos and Manny Tecson before, is that still running? And how many students they have? I saw a figure of 4 students some time ago, but not sure.....

So thats two academies. sounds interesting and promising, not just a pipe dream but with sponsors and good coaches in place. Congrats.

And another question, why did you build a separate academy and not joined with the aformentioned one? . I also understand that many good youngsters are joining high school training, like Alberto Lim recently (University of the East) and same another school in Cebu are attracting promising high school kids. And then college level, there are some varsity teams with good coaches.

Then for a n academy to be successfull we need a lot of deliberate practice and efficient drills, a coaching philosophy. What are used here? What forehand are teached? What serve? What playing style? And most important of all, how many hours of deep practice do the student get daily, weekly?
Personally I think 3 hours per day is minimum from age 12/13.

[smiley]

I also understand that many good youngsters are joining high school training, like Alberto Lim recently (University of the East)

is he enrolled in UE?

my 2 kids once trained with coach rocky last year, and they have a program at sampaloc with few age groupers. they do more physical conditioning, then drills and match plays. i don't know if it's still running. this is a good outlet for developing future tennis players..

[thetuan]

Tommyfr

great questions so let me try to answer them all

Yes the question has been asked in other countries but all countries you mentioned have some type of development program and it is no surprise that they have high ranking ITF juniors and tennis professionals representing their countries.

We started PTA in Alabang Country Club and we have an elite group and a development pool.  In total, we started the academy last week with 10 students.  In our elite program, we have AJ Lim and Tamitha Nguyen.  We wanted Jurence Mendoza to join but he has not accepted.  We are looking to add four more kids to our elite program in a few weeks, two 13 years old girls and two 10 years old boys.  Our goal for the elite team is to find top tennis talent as early as we can, 10 - 12 years old, and help them to develop a strong, fundamentally sound tennis game and then let their talents take them as high as they can go.  Manny Tecson is a GREAT coach and I have great respect for his knowledge and teaching abilities.  It is not a coincidence that Jeson got as good as he got under Manny.  Manny is often out of town but when he is town, he is training right along side us at Alabang Country Club.  In fact, I wanted Manny to join PTA but he is too busy with Jeson, Marc and Marinel and he will be traveling alot in the next few years with his team.  We might still team up somewhere down the road.

Now to the question of training - we have implemented sport science to ensure that the elite kids will hit the backhand and forehand with the proper techniques that the top pros are using.  If you break down Jokovic, Nadal and Federer strokes, they have the EXACT same power positions with their elbows, shoulders, hips and wrists.  We want our kids to be in the same position at all times during the sequencing of the groundstrokes.  Once this is done and drill into the kids, we will work on the footwork so that our elite kids will hit with power along with proper balance and body control so that they are not wildly out of position or out of sync with their body mechanics.  We have already started this with Mr. Lim and we have already seen a marked improvement with his forehand - watch out for this kid.

The question of hours is an interesting one - you can train for hours and not learn to hit the ball properly but you can train for one hour a day but get a lot for the one hour.  For us, we go three hours, MWF, and five hours, Tuesdays and Thursdays.  We incorporate footwork and conditioning drills on Tuesdays and Thursdays to improve the elite foot speed, anticipation skill, short burst speed, reaction time and endurance.  All of these factors are measured weekly and improvements are noted (if any).  We have a standard for an elite athlete that the kid needs to get to and we work them until they can achieve world class conditioning and speed standards.

Tuan

[burosky]

I just want to add my .02 cents with regards to the development of tennis in the Philippines (or anywhere for that matter).  I think what is critical for the development of tennis anywhere is having a solid grass roots program.  By a grass roots program I don't mean just offering clinics, lessons or even sponsorships to deserving juniors.  All this programs will be for nothing if the interest is not there.  In most cases, interest in any sport is developed by exposure.

If I'm not mistaken, basketball is the most popular sport in the country.  There was even a time when our country could be considered a "powerhouse" internationally.  Since then, although we haven't lived up to the same level, there seems to be no shortage of talented players who if given the opportunity could compete in the international stage.  From generation to generation we see very highly skilled ballers and it seems like the skill and talent level continue to get better.  Why is this the case for basketball?  I think it is because of the exposure basketball gets.  I remember during my elementary days the only sport that was introduced to us was basketball.  I have been away for a very long time now but I won't be surprised if this continues to this day.  This kind of early exposure gives the kids the interest in it.  As they get older, they develop the skills and talent for it.  This is quite understandable.  Everyone can participate because it is essentially a sport that one can be good at without spending money on it.  As long as you have a ball you can practice.  Aside from that, there are a lot of courts where people can play for free which makes getting a pick-up game easy.  In short, it is very accessible to any child.  Can you imagine if this was the same case for tennis?  If it was you will have kids swinging rackets as early as kindergarten!

The question is how can basketball’s exposure be duplicated for tennis.  I understand we are not comparing apples to apples.  Tennis is not as accessible to every child as basketball.  This is easier said than done but one way could be to introduce tennis to schools as an alternative sport for PE.  I know this sounds more like a dream or wishful thinking but all it takes are determined groups or individuals to make it happen.  Let’s set aside getting assistance from the government.  We all know that is not very likely to happen and is something none of us can control.  Just here at PTO, it is obvious there are lots of tennis clubs scattered everywhere.  Here’s a suggestion for the clubs.  How about approaching the principal of a school in the club’s immediate area to offer tennis as an alternative to PE?  The club members can then volunteer to help/teach tennis to kids for free.  The idea is not to develop kids but to get them to swing a racket.  Sure, tennis courts are not common for schools but there usually is a basketball court.  With any op and hopefully increase the talent poolen space all that is needed is a portable net.  As for equipment, donations can be solicited from sponsors or other club members.  As more schools participate there can be invitational “tournaments” for those kids who show interest.  I know this isn’t easy and it will take a major commitment.  If this can be done though it can be very fruitful for the future of Philippine tennis.  Every child this kind of program reaches is like a seed that is planted for the future.  Although not every child will develop the interest I’m pretty sure there would be some.  It is admirable for programs like the PTA or coaches like coach Bob who are doing something about this by offering programs.  He and the other coaches can’t do it by themselves though.  Their programs could benefit more if there are a lot more kids who get interested in our favorite sport.  Let the grass roots volunteers handle the recruitment of the kids.  A program like this will help ensure the continuity or interest in our sport and hopefully increase the talent pool.  Then let programs from PTA, coach Bob and others handle the further development of the kids.

It isn’t bad to dream, right?

[thetuan]

Burosky

Our program is not just the elite program - the main component of our program is the talent ID program.  What we are trying to do is to get tennis rackets into as many kids hands as possible - especially in the provinces.  We are in the process of setting up satellite training centers in CDO, Davao and Cebu.  These satellite centers will host after school program for kids to come out and learn about this great game.  We want to ID as many kids as possible that are interested the game and let the cream rises with proper training and tournament competitions.  We have started in Cebu and found this 10 years old boy that might be real good some day.

I really believe the talents are there, we will find them and we will make them into great ambassadors for Philippines.

[tommyfr]

The biggest reasons mentioned for the decline of tennis in the US is
a) many kids spend hours on tv and computer games and dont get out to do sport
b) of the sports, tennis in second tier. First tier is basketball, american football, baseball, maybe soccer,lacrosse. In the major 3 of these sports even if you are just on the bench you can be very rich on your sport. Out of 100 athlete talents maybe 90 chose the top tier sports and only 1 chose tennis.

As for Philippines, there is less time spent on computer games etc, although trend is rising. And basically the only top tier sport is basketball. You find courts everywhere and accessible due to low price and good weather. There is money in the local league. And basketball has many similarities with tennis, footwork, hand-eye cordination. Can we bring some talents from basket to tennis?

Anyways, as for tennis, I think many things are in place. In every city, town and municipality over the whole country you can find a tennis court. (Tennis was brougt to this country by the priests some 100 + years ago.) Quite a few tennis tournaments during april-may for age groupers. The weather is fine for tennis also, except the rain that stop tennis practice many days if courts not covered.

One problem i notice is the long school hours for many kids. Wake up at 5 and home around 4 or 4 .30. Then it is dark at six, and still homework to do. I think we need to encourage much more of homeschooling.

An alternative to go via schools would be to Encourage kids living near tennis courts to join tennis (with good instructors)

[tommyfr]

hi thetuan

your program sounds very good, based on your description M-F. What about weekends?
And what about the academic part? Do your students go to same school or homeschooled? How do they manage the 5 hrs on TU-TH otherwise?

[tommyfr]

Going back to my previous post on why us tennis is not so strong anymore, here is a third important reason pointed out by many insiders:

c) the tennis academies, and there are more than 100 of them in the country: some of them dont teach proper technique. And many of them, in order to justify to the parents their high fees, have too long hours, 5-6 hours a day.

Common result: BURNOUT at age 15-16. Too much focus on tournaments , ranking points, pressure from parents, with too long practice hours.

[Tennis_Guy]

An alternative to go via schools would be to Encourage kids living near tennis courts to join tennis (with good instructors)

The problem with this is that majority of local Tennis clubs only have one court, and most of them have regulars that do not like clinics to be held during peak hours since there is only one court.  In our court alone we have only produced two juniors in the past 8 years and since they play a different style of game the oldies don't want to play with them and they have to wait for our class A players to play with them or they hit with a trainer.  

One alternative would be to develop a mini tennis program for schools.  This will solve the infrastructure problem, since mini tennis requires a smaller area, I think you can fit 3-4 mini tennis courts in a basketball court.  Around Manila there is a surge in small progressive schools who are in need of PE programs, maybe someone can propose to these schools to have mini tennis as an alternative for PE.  It would even be better if an organization will be able to organize mini tennis tournaments for these schools.  I think this is a viable grass roots program to develop young talents and introduce them to the sport of tennis early.

[SLP888]

Thanks Tuan,burosky,tommyfr and others for giving ideas on how to improve Philippine Tennis. As I noticed, we all have good thinking sharing creative ideas but the big problem here is the WILL to implement it. We need people who are willing work hard to realized what we are thinking for Philippine Tennis. It's easy to say this and that but difficult to implement because it takes sacrifice,Passion,Hardwork and Love.
Time and Money takes very important role in achieving this dreams. It's gonna be a long way process(time) to realized and it needs right and knowlegeable people to undertake(money). I'm also a fan of Tennis and I want Philippine Tennis to improve.

[racketwiz]

One alternative would be to develop a mini tennis program for schools.  This will solve the infrastructure problem, since mini tennis requires a smaller area, I think you can fit 3-4 mini tennis courts in a basketball court.  Around Manila there is a surge in small progressive schools who are in need of PE programs, maybe someone can propose to these schools to have mini tennis as an alternative for PE.  It would even be better if an organization will be able to organize mini tennis tournaments for these schools.  I think this is a viable grass roots program to develop young talents and introduce them to the sport of tennis early.

I think Tennis Guy is on to something here.  The US Tennis Assn has a "Quick Start" program that addresses this issue. Most, if not all of the top tennis instructors and coaches endorse and support this program, and has been implemented nationwide. The program seems to be working. Over 43% more people are playing tennis today than 10 yrs ago. According to the USTA, the number of kids from 6-17 playing tennis has grown to over 7 to over 10 mil since 2003.

Maybe a version of it can be applied to local grass-roots programs.

[thetuan]

tommyfr

Elite kids will be home schooled so they can concentrate on improving their games with PTA.  We are 110% serious about getting all of our scholars free rides to US colleges upon graduation from high school.

Camoy

We definitely have the money, the passion and the love for Philippines tennis and I am not going to let another filipino tennis player talents go undeveloped.  I have seen dozen of kids in the past 9 years not realizing their god giving talents and it is a shameful for me to watch on the sideline.  I am now in the game and I know we will count  on you, Joseph Lizardo and Bobby Angelo to come home at some point and help us with our elite juniors.  We are sending this year's team to Cerritos to train with Luxilonwave and maybe next year, we will come out to your place.

Let's keep the hope alive for RP tennis

Tuan

[burosky]

I think Tennis Guy is on to something here.  The US Tennis Assn has a "Quick Start" program that addresses this issue. Most, if not all of the top tennis instructors and coaches endorse and support this program, and has been implemented nationwide. The program seems to be working. Over 43% more people are playing tennis today than 10 yrs ago. According to the USTA, the number of kids from 6-17 playing tennis has grown to over 7 to over 10 mil since 2003.

Maybe a version of it can be applied to local grass-roots programs.

This is exactly what I was alluding to.  The QuickStart program is more directed towards the teaching professionals to incorporate it in their own programs.  It is working because there are established teaching orgnizations (i.e. USPTA, USPTR) that bought into the idea.  I have not heard of a similar organization in the Philippines.  The closest I think would be the United Coaches or something like that.  This is why I thought it would be better to approach schools.  Getting it included as a formal subject would give kids the opportunity and time to try it out.

There are kits that can be bought to start a QuickStart program.  Let me put out this challenge/offer.  If there is a club or organization that is willing to give this a shot I'd be willing to provide the kit.  Here is an example: http://rmsboulder.com/Courtmaster18QuickStartKit-1.aspx.  I'd do it if I wasn't based in the US.  Maybe when I retire in about 8 years.  Any takers?

[thetuan]

Hey Burosky

Philippines tennis has hard enough time just getting a junior development program in place.  In addition, Quick Start is not proven to be a contributor to teach the young kids how to play the game properly.  It's very similar to ping pong when you shrink down the court and slow the ball down.  These young kids can hit the ball, not move very much and think they got the fundamental techniques down.  Once they move to a regular size court and regular size racquets, they are in for a shock.

My thing is we should just get racquets into hands of as many kids as we can and see who has the passion for the game and who has the talent to do well in tennis.  I can't wait until we branch out to CDO And Davao with our after school program.  It is not unreasonable to think that we can get 10-15 elite kids to develop.

Tuan

[tommyfr]

I am quite positive to minitennis a la quick start, from age 4 to maybe 9 or so. Yes there has been some scepticism on quick start. Especially the low net and related risk of learning strokes with not enough net clearance, and then problems when transferring to big court.

But one of the most famous tennis coaches in the world, Oscar Wegner (whose teaching has been instrumental in the technical developnt of Williams sisters, Paradorn Shrichapan, Bryan brothers, Gustavo Kuerten, the russian tennis revolution, etc), who has for years critisized the conventional tennis techniques teached in many places in US, and been subject to a lot of antagonism for that, is supporting quick start.
Also, looking into a different sport, in another part of the world, as described in the Daniel Boyles book "The Talent Code - greatnes is not born, it is grown":

 When a group of reserchers from europe studied football in Brasil in order to understand the fantastic number of talents/professionals produced there over the last 60 years, what they found was that a lot of kids played the sport with football size less than half or the regular ball size, sometimes much heavier also, and in a pitch just the size of a basketball court (5 in each team vs 11 for full court).

If the tennis kids just learn topspin early they would not have any problem with transfer from mini court to full court. And look at the advantages: how many 4-7 year olds can play on full court? How many more could play on small court? And how many strokes would they do in 1 hour compard to one hour full court?

  And that would free up more space for us in Philippines. If we could let young kids play not only on tennis courts (that are a bit far in between, and /or busy with those veterans (most often with terrible techique, ie poor role models), but also on indoor or outdor basketball courts, with better surface. The Philippine shell courts are really not ideal for learning tennis. Nick Bollettieri advocates hard court surface for young children when learning the strokes.

And as for talent identification, if this would become a filipino grass root program, what a pool to identintfy the top talented. How many 4-10 year olds play tennis regularly today in PH? Maybe 1000. What if we had 1 million young kids?....

[racketwiz]

In addition, Quick Start is not proven to be a contributor to teach the young kids how to play the game properly.  It's very similar to ping pong when you shrink down the court and slow the ball down.  These young kids can hit the ball, not move very much and think they got the fundamental techniques down.  Once they move to a regular size court and regular size racquets, they are in for a shock.

If you say it’s not proven to be a contributor, then I’m confused.

The ITF has the Play and Stay program with member-nations implementing programs of their own (such as the USTA’s QuickStart).  Top players endorse it, top coaches are implementing it, countries are adapting it.

http://www.tennisplayandstay.com/site/tennis_10s
http://10andundertennis.com/about.htm

Starting next year, new ITF rules mandate that 10-under tournaments be played on smaller courts, with color-coded balls and appropriate length rackets.

Wouldn’t it make sense for us to adapt and adhere to the new rules and train kids according to the program’s guidelines? I mean, it's the ITF that's mandating this, so there must be some merit to it.

Any kid from this program who exhibits an aptitude for the game can then be recruited into your elite program.

[thetuan]

racketwiz

No confusion on my end - tell me one good world class junior that graduated from the QS program.  You can't.

I have seen and worked with 10 years old all over the world (except for Europe) and kids at 10 years old can definitely learn to play tennis on a regular size court and equipment.  My point here is that we have a hard enough time sustaining any kind of junior development program in the Philippines.  I don't think anybody has the motivation to start a QS program in the Philippines.  It is just not going to happen

Tuan

[tommyfr]

Mini tennis for young kids is not only the future for Philippine tennis, a potential solution. If not taken we will not have a locally developed player in top 300 in next generation tennis either.

Let me explain, and the logic is very simple, based on sport science and backed by players, coaches and tennis federations all over the world....

Kids learn to play baseball by first playing t-ball; they use shorter, lighter bats and larger, softer balls. Kids learning basketball shoot baskets with kid-sized balls and lowered backboards; they play soccer on smaller fields with smaller goals. But when it comes to learning tennis, we still make children play on adult-sized courts with yellow balls and adult-sized racquets. This is asking a lot of a kid who could be 2/3 the size of an adult.

But tennis has finally caught up.

10 and Under Tennis follows the same logic as other youth sports like baseball or soccer: kid-sized courts and kid-sized equipment. The benefits are immediate. Within an hour kids are rallying, having fun and psyched for more. They're playing real tennis and having real fun. And isn't that the point?

Of course there are a few young players that can play well on full court, especially at 10 years. But I watched a few age-group tournaments here in Philippines last April-May, and to see those 7-8 year olds on full court was very disappoining. 70 % of points over already at serve (double faults or service winner, usually the moon ball like serve bounced 7-8n feet over the surprised. helpless kid).

But what we are talking about is to get many kids to play tennis and start early, learn hand eay coordination, speed, court tactics, develp interest, and feel competent and have fun with this sport.

How can we mention a junior tennis star that come from Quick start background? QS was launched in US an many other countries only 2008! And tournamnets in this format mandatory from 2012....

On the other hand I can mention another junior tennis star that started learning tennis playing over a net only 1 feet high. With a toy tennis racket. She started early. It was a very small court. It was actually in the familys living room. The challenge her father gave her: "lets hit the ball 20 times over the net, then you will get a prize." She played like this for over a year until she played first time on full court. This particularly girl continued later to go on the main tour, winning 24 singles grand slams! Beating Martina Navratilova, M Seles, Williams sister, M Hingis on the way...

There are many ways to learn play tennis. Be open for that.

In the Spartak tennis academy outside Moscow, Russia, young kids learn tennis first years with a lot of shadowing (even without ball) and slow motion, "imitatsiya". ("russian tennis revolution")

Both Bjorn Borg and Pete Sampars when they were 10 under hit many thousands of balls on the garage door of their parents house.
Jeson Patrombon, at 7, reportedly playing with a flatish rom bottle (mini tennis, not full court).

Now all the biggest tennis countries in the world, US, Spain, France, Belgium.etc seems to go full way for Quick start or similar locally adjusted programs.......

[thetuan]

tommyfr

Hey I didn't sign up to this forum to argue over Quick Start - I want to join so all of us can contribute ideas on how we can advance tennis in the Philippines.  The filipinos are talented in many areas and tennis is definitely one of them.  I know a lot of outstanding filipino tennis players but they are all overseas.  The difference is that they received proper training from go status and they let their talents shine through.  Now it is time to do the same in the Philippines for the local tennis talents.  Let's all help each other in this goal.

One last thought on QS - there is now a debate brewing in the US on whether or not QS is the right launching pad for teaching tennis to young kids. Of course I have my opinion on this and I am against shrinking down court and equipment.  We just won't do this in PTA.  This is not to say that others won't do it so if it takes off, so be it.

Cheers

Tuan

[burosky]

I don’t think anyone is trying to argue about QuickStart.  I think what prompted tommy's response was the statement you made saying “No confusion on my end - tell me one good world class junior that graduated from the QS program.  You can't.”

Not sure if you just missed the point I tried to make in an earlier post.  QuickStart is just a tool to get kids to try out tennis.  Just like the name implies.  It is a quick way to start playing the sport.  The idea is to introduce kids to tennis and hopefully keep them interested enough for them to want to really learn it.  I don’t thnik it was meant for teaching kids the fundamentals right away.  The key is making and keeping those kids interested.  The reason why I favor the QuickStart program is because it limits the frustration of trying out tennis the first time.  You know how kids are.  They tend to have a very short span of attention.  If they don’t have fun doing it the first few times it is very likely they will be disinterested.  Why are there smaller basketballs and lower backboards?  Because a typical child does not have the strength to shoot a regulation size ball to a regulation height backboard.  As such, after the first few tries, they will quickly realize it isn’t going to happen thus it makes them disinterested.  If they get introduced to it again when they get older maybe they will get back to it.  However, they’ve already lost years they could have been playing it.  The same is true for tennis.  One of the most frustrating things when someone is just starting is to be able to hit the ball much less sustain a rally.  Even some beginner adults find this difficult.  What more for small kids?  Have them use a racket they can barely lift, hit balls that feels heavy over a net they can barely see over and you have a child who would rather do something else.

Not every kid who is introduced to basketball and kept interested turns into a pro or even a varsity player for that matter.  However, out of the thousands, if not millions of kids who get introduced to basketball, chances are there will be one who will be talented enough to turn pro.  Just like what you stated in your response to my post – ”My thing is we should just get racquets into hands of as many kids as we can and see who has the passion for the game and who has the talent to do well in tennis”.  Don’t you think having some sort of QuickStart program at schools will achieve this objective?  If there are no new kids introduced to the sport and kept interested, after you’ve seen as many kids as you can, who else will you see?  This was the point I was trying to make.  The more kids we can “recruit” the better chances are for the future of Philippine tennis.

Any takers for the challenge/offer I made?

[racketwiz]

racketwiz

No confusion on my end - tell me one good world class junior that graduated from the QS program.  You can't.

I have seen and worked with 10 years old all over the world (except for Europe) and kids at 10 years old can definitely learn to play tennis on a regular size court and equipment.  My point here is that we have a hard enough time sustaining any kind of junior development program in the Philippines.  I don't think anybody has the motivation to start a QS program in the Philippines.  It is just not going to happen

Tuan

I can respect that.  Nick Bollettieri was a skeptic, too.  But, not only does he endorse the idea, he has also incorporated the program into his academy’s curriculum. So, I think that speaks volumes in and of itself.

Whether we like it or not, the new ITF rule regarding 10-under takes effect next year, which makes this issue rather moot.  It’s not a matter of whether or not someone has the motivation to do it, or will it take off or not.  By Jan 1, 2012, it’s the rule.

This, in my opinion, is where TP.Org / PTO can be of service to the local progress of the sport.  We don’t need hi-performance coaches to get a 10-under program started.  Our own 3.5s and up can manage the program implementation.  We have no shortage of trainers in the courts that our members play on.  We can tap them to assist in this effort if necessary.

Any kid in the program who shows excellent aptitude and potential for the sport can be elevated to elite training.  This is what hi-performance coaches like yourself, Bobby Armillo and others can focus on – training the cream of the crop. If you don't want to do this in your PTA, then that's your prerogative. Then again, maybe you don't need to. An external 10-under program can identify and deliver potential star players into your elite program. In essence, what we would have is a synergistic partnership with the same ultimate goals.

Otherwise, local efforts to grow the game and find rough diamonds will be fragmented, just as it has always been, and we’ll be back to the same old same old.  This is not about which tennis program, academy or coach can lay claim to the fame of producing the most number of world-class players. This has to be a collective effort.

As burosky has already indicated, he is ready and willing to make his contribution to such a program. I'm sure that there are many others like him who are willing to make the same contributions.

[burosky]

This, in my opinion, is where TP.Org / PTO can be of service to the local progress of the sport.  We don’t need hi-performance coaches to get a 10-under program started.  Our own 3.5s and up can manage the program implementation.  We have no shortage of trainers in the courts that our members play on.  We can tap them to assist in this effort if necessary.

Any kid in the program who shows excellent aptitude and potential for the sport can be elevated to elite training.  This is what hi-performance coaches like yourself, Bobby Armillo and others can focus on – training the cream of the crop. If you don't want to do this in your PTA, then that's your prerogative. Then again, maybe you don't need to. An external 10-under program can identify and deliver potential star players into your elite program. In essence, what we would have is a synergistic partnership with the same ultimate goals.

Otherwise, local efforts to grow the game and find rough diamonds will be fragmented, just as it has always been, and we’ll be back to the same old same old.  This is not about which tennis program, academy or coach can lay claim to the fame of producing the most number of world-class players. This has to be a collective effort.

Well said, bro!  That's exactly what I had in mind.  I just could find the right words.

[thetuan]

Actually, we have started a 10 and under beginner class with PTA and we have three young, beginner boys who are doing just fine with our instructions.  They are learning the basics of the groundstrokes, learning how to move properly, learning to hit with balance, and having a blast doing it.  This is what I know so I am going to stick to what works for me.  Like I said, if QS takes off in the Philippines, more power to it.

I just want to address your point on collective effort - we are all totally for it and I think it is necessary.  In fact, we met with Bob Armillo and his program and we are more than happy to assist him with it.  What he is doing fits in perfectly with our elite training program.  We are not into if our academy produced X number of world class players or which coach has which top players.  This is all about the kids and how we can improve tennis in the Philippines.  Hopefully, we will not be fragmented in our effort but we can make strong impact in identifying the tennis talents in the Philippines and then guide the kids properly.

Tuan

[racketwiz]

Actually, we have started a 10 and under beginner class with PTA and we have three young, beginner boys who are doing just fine with our instructions.  They are learning the basics of the groundstrokes, learning how to move properly, learning to hit with balance, and having a blast doing it.  This is what I know so I am going to stick to what works for me.  Like I said, if QS takes off in the Philippines, more power to it.

Understood. You work with what works for you.

Question is, if you eschew the 10-under mini-tennis approach, how would you field kids in sanctioned 10-under tournaments where ITF rules for 10-under applies?  Just bypass it entirely and have them play up in the 12s?

[racketwiz]

For the forums convenience:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOtq_Pfl-zY&feature=player_embedded

[billyd]

My own humble opinion: I think that everyone here has made good points and I believe we all have a role to play, whether its getting kids initially exposed at an early age or taking talented kids at 10 and up and giving them an environment where their talents can take them to the next stage. We cannot immediately change the overall state of tennis development in the Phils but we can do what we can individually in our own neighborhoods. I think Tuan has a terrific concept in finding and taking in (and most importantly funding) the 10-12 kids with potential to be trained in their elite program. But having said that (and for the purpose of this topic of conversation) I think there is a role for mini tennis.

In my experience, when young children play on full size courts with adult rackets they are limited in how they can play the game. Volleys become a worthless tactic and hitting a one handed topspin or slice backhand is a lot more difficult than using two hands. I believe Mini Tennis will allow more children to develop the proper fundamentals and skills needed to become a good player, and it will do so at a much younger age. Learning the skills early is what is important. By the time they are 10 and up they can graduate to regular rackets and be ready for the next stage.

I believe Justine Henin grew up playing mini tennis. Clearly she is not a product of any sort of overall “mini tennis” program that is being introduced by ITF (Play n Stay) or the USTA’ Quick Start’ (which by the way is now being renamed “10 and Under Tennis” instead of Quick Start). But just imagine that there might have been a chance that a player like Henin could have slipped through the cracks because her game would not be immediately successful on a full court with adult rackets and regular balls. This could have caused her to lose out on sponsorship from the Belgium USTA equivalent, or maybe she would have just gone with a two handed backhand because its infinitely easier, and we would never have seen Henin win 4 French Opens with her awesome variety.

So I do think there is a place for Mini-Tennis for the younger age kids which is now being promoted. For young kids that do use Mini Tennis as a stepping stone, I don’t think there will be one child that wont benefit from it. I am sure there will be parents not convinced and wanting to get their children to succeed on full courts as quickly as possible rather that taking this step. But what does “succeed” mean.. winning 10u tournaments with extreme grips and high looping moon balls? I do believe mini tennis has a role to play in fundamentally developing correct technique for use later when they are older where competitive tournament play in their early to mid teens will determine their tennis future.

Aside from this I think we all know that it takes years to develop a tennis player. At least 10 years and 10 thousand hours of practice. We need to start kids as early as possible. The ITF / USTA began making this thrust just 2-3 years ago, but the numbers have been encouraging in getting kids into the game and staying in it.. We wont know until another 7 or 8 years go by if the program has produced any world class players but expanding the base of players early on is certainly a good way to start.


Now having said all that, I must admit that I have been a lucky recipient of a several rackets to get out to kids in the province and which have been put to good use. As a result there is a local 5yr old boy who really likes to play and is also good. So again getting rackets out has also had a positive effect up here in Agoo, La Union. Any racket is better than no racket. Tuan, you should see this little guy hit he might make it to your elite group someday. Burosky, I might take you up on a mini-tennis kit but as pointed out in parts of this discussion it is a bit difficult to get our two court club to let juniors play when they get off school at essentially prime time and the adults occupy the courts. I’m scouting for a suitable mini tennis court site.

Anyway good to see we all want to contribute somehow for a positive impact on Philippine tennis in the future.

In closing here is a clip of the best tennis point ever…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUQLwaRBj8Y&feature=player_embedded

[tommyfr]

To so many all of you, thanks. This thread is really one of the best ever on this site, with so many insigthfull comments and interesting info and data.

Thanks racketwiz for the last video...if ever a short video can say more than thousands of words, thats it. Thanks Tuan for informing us about the new academy, not a pipedream but something that has been created, is just starting, with elite players, coaches and sponsorship money all in place. Fantastic. (btw,Are you going to start up a web page or at least a facebook page, also with more info & pictures of your academy.) Thanks burosky, incl your offer.

Lets support this new academy, and the others that might exist elsewhere, and grass roots programs with corresponding talent id, and maybe in ten years time we can have a local born and bread filipino world class tennis star, maybe top 20 or top 10 in mens or womens. Same as has been achieved for other sports like boxing, chess, billiard, bowling.

We have tennis courts all over the country since the missionaries/priests and since Mr Davis, the Governeor-general over the Philippines 1929-1932 encouraged sport facilities in  the town and city plazas. We have some generous patrons and sponsors. Now a couple of small elite academies.

But international competition is tough. Not tough, more than.fierce... Just take US, they have 200+ academies. Bollettieri is the most famous and the biggest with 600 fulltime students. And only a very small fraction of their students are expected to be ATP/WTA tour players. (College scholarship most realistic, if not burned out). Add to this all the academies in Spain, France, Brasil, Germany, and many many other countries. With huge resources on technical coaching, diet, fysio, tactics & point construction, even mental development, exposure for international tournaments and so forth.

Maybe we need to do something a bit different?

[thetuan]

All

You guys have written in support of Quick Start program in the Philippines.  My position is that if it takes off and the filipino kids take to it, then I am all for it.  What ever it takes to generate interest in the game of tennis, then I am in full support.  My personal belief is that QS is not a contributor to teach kids how to play tennis properly - QS is fool's gold but that just my opinion.

On to the real topic - Philippines tennis future.  PTA will work very hard in the next five years to develop the local talents so that we have many local tennis players playing is US colleges and representing the Philippines in a positive light and, in the process, uplift their economic status.  Also, by having a lot of developed talents, we might get a handful that are world class that will bring honor and pride to the Philippines.  If we can do that, then PTA is considered a success.  We are in the process of developing a website (maybe a facebook or google + page) so that we can communicate with all who are interested in PTA.  We want to, on a monthly basis, publish rankings, tournament results, tennis related events, etc on our website so everyone can stay in touch with the tennis happenings in the Philippines.  Again, we have just started in July of 2011 so a lot of foundation building has to take place.  PTA should have most things in place by 2012 and we are looking forward to your contributions in our efforts to uplift the local tennis talents.

God Bless

Tuan

BTW - I have been watching Mr. Petrombon practiced for the past week and he is quickly becoming a legitimate ATP tour player (maybe top 100).  This kid might very well be our tennis version of Pacquiao - he is off on a five future tour events in North America so let's all pray for his continued success.

[tommyfr]

As for  QS-quick start, I understand they changed the name now to "10 and under tennis", and i will start a separate thread on that.


To Tuan: As for PTA, the most interesting and new development, I have a couple of questions:

- What are the conditions (except age and assessed talent), if any, for a talented child to join (it was mentioned before that one talented child was approached and declined the offer). Is it related to schooling (home schooling required), coaching, accommodation (must be in certain dorm), costs, or percentage of future earnings?

- I am not sure of the goals of the academy: is the main goal to have the graduates go to US colleges? So many players go there and not very much heard of then. Is there no non us college alternative?

- Based on your experience of filipino tennis talent, that was lost...never was realized, what were the main problem? a) not properly coached, technique (lack of consistency and/or weapon) b) lack of tactical understanding and point construction, c) physically weak (speed, stamina, strength), d) lack of motivation (maybe burnout) and/or discipline (happy go lucky, lazy) e) not mentally tough, winning mind, will to win?

Data on the second question would be valuable to hear from other coaches or observers as well.

If we dont learn from previous experience and history we might repeat past mistakes.

When was last time Philippines had a locally born and trained player reaching top 100 in the world, woman or man? A lot of college players, yes.....

[thetuan]

tommyfr

Interesting and outstanding questions my friend - these are questions and thoughts that we all ask ourselves time and time again.  Let me try to give you my thoughts on these topics.

1) the condition for out elite team is the child needs to pass the coaches evaluation for future success with tennis.  The elite team is sponsored so schooling, coaching, and traveling expenses are shouldered by the academy so we want to have a true elite team.  The kid that we approached and was still deciding to join has tentatively accepted our offer to join PTA.  We are meeting with the parents today to finalize the agreement.  We are not interested in future earnings - we are interested in developing and preparing the juniors so they can get college scholarships and have good interpersonal skills so that they can represent themselves and the Philippines in a positive way.

2) The goal of PTA is very simple and I allude to it previously.  We want to send all of our PTAers to colleges - local or abroad.  If the kid goes to college, plays tennis and help the team, gets a good education, graduates and get a good job/career then PTA has met its goal.  True that most kids will grow up and get jobs and probably will never be heard from again in the tennis arena, and we are fine with that because that is not PTA's mission. However, I believe that over the years, a handful of kids will be so good in tennis, that they will have to come back home and help us with Davis Cup and Fed Cup duties.  For these special elites, this is how they can help to pay back PTA - we will have local, home grown talents representing Philippines in international competition.

3) Based on my experience, the problem with the lost local tennis talents is everything that you outlined.  I'll just take out one main point - lack of technique.  I don't think PHILTA did a good enough job of giving the elite players the right stroke fundamentals to be successful in high level competitions.  You can get away with poor strokes if others have the same issue.  But if you go up against another equally talented opponent but your opponent has been trained properly to be more consistent than you, you will lose 100% of the time.  It is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.  A great example of this is with our current elite team - I'll take AJ Lim as an example.  This kid has been destroying the competition locally at age 12 and has been winning in the 18s division.  But when we filmed his strokes, broke it down and compared it to the pros, we found MANY areas of deficiencies that we need to correct.  One big glaring area is with his take back and contact point.  Our coaches went to work to correct these areas and within two weeks, he is now hitting so much better with proper techniques/footwork/balance.  With the elites, it will not take them long to incorporate the right fundamentals and start doing them correctly time and time again.

4) I don't know of any local born players that reached top 100 in the ATP or WTA tour.  We might have to go back to the 50s and 60s to see if the players of that era made it.  I doubt it because traveling and enough high level tournaments probably were issues even back then.  The closest players that I know, in recent times, were Felix, Cris Fernandez, Eva Olivarez, Joseph Lizardo that even attempted to play tour events.  There might be others but I am not aware of any.  Now it is time for us to change this - I really believe that we currently have four kids that have legitimate chance of playing professional tennis if their hearts are in to doing this - Jurence, AJ, Clarice and Tami and PTA is working now with three of them.  There are a few more that we have identified that are in the 10-12 years old range and we will start working with them by September.  Our elite team should, more or less, be in full swing by 2012 and these kids should start showing good results by then.

Tuan

[thetuan]

Oops - I left out two filipinos who are already on tour now, Jeson and Marc Reyes.  I have been watching these two boys fight it out in practice and let me tell you, technically, they are as sound as any top 100 ATP tour pro.  Now it is time for them go out to the "show" and learn how to win at the highest level and this will take some time to learn.  One HUGE area of development for these boys is point construction/rally strategy.  They are hitting their rallies at breakneck speed and that is only good for a short time.  Our bodies are not made to consistently rotate and move at full speed for long period of times.  Even the top pros know how to conserve energy and dial down the speed when situation calls for it.  Once these boys understand how to win points among the pros, they will be very successful on tour.

Tuan

[cypher]

         Very interesting thread, i think everyone should do their part in bringing philippine tennis to a new high. As far as i can see the players to watch out for in the future are as follows:


Professional/Home Grown,Davis Cup, Fed Cup Players
Jeson Patrombon
Marc Reyes
Kyle Dandan
Pablo Olivarez jr
Jurence Mendoza
Clarice Patrimonio
Marinel Rudas
Tamitha Nguyen
Marian Capadocia
Christine Patrimonio

oh by the way what happened to Patrick John Tierro? He did good during that one time tie with japan held at rizal memorial.he is a good hardcourt player too.


Kids to Develop? Aj Lim is one. but where are the others? who are winning in the 12s and 14s nowadays? and how about the other kids from the provinces other than manila. hopefully there is a way to contact them or to offer them opportunities like these kids have.

[renald]

Talked to PJ last PCA, he is working on his college degree(DLSU)

         Very interesting thread, i think everyone should do their part in bringing philippine tennis to a new high. As far as i can see the players to watch out for in the future are as follows:


Professional/Home Grown,Davis Cup, Fed Cup Players
Jeson Patrombon
Marc Reyes
Kyle Dandan
Pablo Olivarez jr
Jurence Mendoza
Clarice Patrimonio
Marinel Rudas
Tamitha Nguyen
Marian Capadocia
Christine Patrimonio

oh by the way what happened to Patrick John Tierro? He did good during that one time tie with japan held at rizal memorial.he is a good hardcourt player too.


Kids to Develop? Aj Lim is one. but where are the others? who are winning in the 12s and 14s nowadays? and how about the other kids from the provinces other than manila. hopefully there is a way to contact them or to offer them opportunities like these kids have.

[pytda]

tommyfr

Interesting and outstanding questions my friend - these are questions and thoughts that we all ask ourselves time and time again.  Let me try to give you my thoughts on these topics.

1) the condition for out elite team is the child needs to pass the coaches evaluation for future success with tennis.  The elite team is sponsored so schooling, coaching, and traveling expenses are shouldered by the academy so we want to have a true elite team.  The kid that we approached and was still deciding to join has tentatively accepted our offer to join PTA.  We are meeting with the parents today to finalize the agreement.  We are not interested in future earnings - we are interested in developing and preparing the juniors so they can get college scholarships and have good interpersonal skills so that they can represent themselves and the Philippines in a positive way.

2) The goal of PTA is very simple and I allude to it previously.  We want to send all of our PTAers to colleges - local or abroad.  If the kid goes to college, plays tennis and help the team, gets a good education, graduates and get a good job/career then PTA has met its goal.  True that most kids will grow up and get jobs and probably will never be heard from again in the tennis arena, and we are fine with that because that is not PTA's mission. However, I believe that over the years, a handful of kids will be so good in tennis, that they will have to come back home and help us with Davis Cup and Fed Cup duties.  For these special elites, this is how they can help to pay back PTA - we will have local, home grown talents representing Philippines in international competition.

3) Based on my experience, the problem with the lost local tennis talents is everything that you outlined.  I'll just take out one main point - lack of technique.  I don't think PHILTA did a good enough job of giving the elite players the right stroke fundamentals to be successful in high level competitions.  You can get away with poor strokes if others have the same issue.  But if you go up against another equally talented opponent but your opponent has been trained properly to be more consistent than you, you will lose 100% of the time.  It is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.  A great example of this is with our current elite team - I'll take AJ Lim as an example.  This kid has been destroying the competition locally at age 12 and has been winning in the 18s division.  But when we filmed his strokes, broke it down and compared it to the pros, we found MANY areas of deficiencies that we need to correct.  One big glaring area is with his take back and contact point.  Our coaches went to work to correct these areas and within two weeks, he is now hitting so much better with proper techniques/footwork/balance.  With the elites, it will not take them long to incorporate the right fundamentals and start doing them correctly time and time again.

4) I don't know of any local born players that reached top 100 in the ATP or WTA tour.  We might have to go back to the 50s and 60s to see if the players of that era made it.  I doubt it because traveling and enough high level tournaments probably were issues even back then.  The closest players that I know, in recent times, were Felix, Cris Fernandez, Eva Olivarez, Joseph Lizardo that even attempted to play tour events.  There might be others but I am not aware of any.  Now it is time for us to change this - I really believe that we currently have four kids that have legitimate chance of playing professional tennis if their hearts are in to doing this - Jurence, AJ, Clarice and Tami and PTA is working now with three of them.  There are a few more that we have identified that are in the 10-12 years old range and we will start working with them by September.  Our elite team should, more or less, be in full swing by 2012 and these kids should start showing good results by then.

Tuan

wow...Tami and Clarice, ....no way...there's just no way...they are not even close to Maricris Fernandez, Lao, and Saret....why can't we identify talents that exclude relatives?

[LTA USA]

The future of Philippine Tennis are the youth guided by coaches who has a true knowledge of developing jr players, skilled or not skilled in the sport of tennis. Without funding, these kids will not even come close to prove themselves in the pro circuit, Davis cup, fed cup, etc.

Tuan is taking an initiative to take local kids and pool them together so that they can be educated about their options and not just hit a yellow tennis ball within a boundary painted by a white line. Lots of people have the solution to the problem but has done nothing in terms in developing jrs in a mass program.

Mass base talent search through quick start
Selection of players
Pool them by region
Top kids trains with the Elite program

Let me know if there is a better way. thanks